this time there well anyway Abu if
you're watching Jackie doesn't want you
back now the cabinet discussed plans for
air strikes in Iraq today Parliament
will vote on them tomorrow no this isn't
a this week repeat from 2003 Britain is
once again on the brink of military
action in Iraq just like the good old
days or the bad old days take your pick
speaking of the UN today the Prime
Minister David Cameron that is not Tony
Blair said past mistakes must not be an
excuse for inaction but have we learned
anything from past mistakes will history
repeat itself we turn to anti-war MP
George Galloway this is take of the
[Music]
week it's Groundhog Day 11 years ago
here on the streets of West star
millions of us marched against the
impending us UK invasion of
Iraq and tomorrow in Parliament we might
just be about to do it all again doesn't
seem to matter to some that a million
people lost their lives that Iraq was
ruined and that the principal
beneficiary of the Bush Blair war on
Iraq was Al-Qaeda and people like them
this is not about me supporting Isis I'd
be happy if every member of Isis was
lying dead here in this street it's
about how we achieve the defeat of Isis
not whether they need to be defeated
these sectarian head chopping heart
eating Maniacs have to be defeated and
the one sure way that you will not
achieve it is British and American and
French bombers and cruise missiles
raining down on yet another Arab Muslim
country not only can many not see the
history of the last 11 years many in
this country appear to have forgotten
our history perfidious albian in the
Arab Middle East over the last century
we need to be strengthening those who
are already fighting Isis isil alqaeda
call them what you will we need to be
strengthening the Kurdish pesmerga the
governments of Iraq and Syria and we
need to find common ground with Russia
China and
Iran from Lawrence of Arabia to David
Cameron not much difference really at
least viewed from the Arab street from
their point of view Britain equals
treachery Invasion and occupation that's
why tomorrow in Parliament I'll be
voting against war in Iraq again
[Music]
yeah and from the back streets of
Westminster to our own little back
street here in the heart of Central
London George Galloway joins us George
welcome to this week George does it make
no difference that this time Iraq has
asked for help from the US its Arab
allies and so on does does that change
the equation it does make a difference
it makes it legal uh where the bombing
in Syria right now is illegal uh but it
doesn't change the other two issues that
I
raise it's indiscriminate you cannot
believe anyone who tells you about
Precision targeting bombing weapons and
so on it'll kill a lot of civilians
women children and when they're dragged
out of the rubble it will do the third
of my trip ditch it will be
counterproductive it will strengthen the
Fanatics and strengthen their appeal
across the 1.7 billion Sunni Muslims in
the world including those here what did
you say to that Jackie well I mean the
first thing I I say George is that um
even without us having taken action it
is clear that the those within Isis are
already committing barbaric acts so I
don't necessarily believe that you know
the it's a grievance that causes that to
happen it's a islamist ideology that
causes that to happen and which needs to
be addressed the second thing i' our
barbaric acts as they'll present them
will will replace the barbaric acts that
they're carrying out I think that's
George's point it is I disagree with it
but the point I do agree with that
George makes is that this needs to be
something uh where those in the in the
region are engaged now they're clearly
engaged in the um military action they
are asking in the case of Iraq for our
support with their strikes and George
you know I've worked with Iraqi
parliamentarians I've worked in Jordan
and in other parts of the of that area
and it strikes me that it is not
contradictory to want to both support
the development of democratic government
and to support with military force where
necessary and where asked in order to
defeat something which is putting those
uh fledgling governments at significant
risk let me uh put a point to Michael
then come back to you Josh uh I mean
we're late to the theater on this uh our
military contribution will be
insignificant the Arab allies are much
more important and we're half-hearted
about it why are we bothering
um let me go back to what George said I
I think one must one must not speak with
any jingoism about this one must be with
quite a lot of humility because I think
I accept what George says that we're in
the position we're in in Iraq partly
because we went to war there in
2003 but I think although George's right
to claim some expertise in the subject
and right to implies I think he does a
lack of expertise in London about the
Middle East there is expertise in Saudi
Arabia and Jordan and and Iraq and the
UAE and Bahrain all of whom I think are
involved in this operation and that I do
find persuasive I mean those countries
surely can make the George argument if
they care to make the George AR argument
but they don't they make an opposite
argument they say that they want our
help now and that is they do in indeed
intend to fight this enemy on the ground
they are fighting the enemy on the
ground but they want us to help them to
fight it from there let George well all
of those countries you mentioned are of
course dictators ship to whom freedom
and liberty is an alien concept secondly
they're not sorry Jordan isn't a
dictatorship Jordan is a royal absolute
monarchy dictatorship I'm sorry you
haven't spent enough time there uh the
dictatorships uh that Michael prenate
are themselves not speaking for their
people indeed much of the support for
isil comes from countries like Saudi
Arabia much of the money uh in the
beginning and these countries that you
mentioned several of them are up to
their neck in the blood in the region in
the first place and thirdly I'm not sure
they are involved I haven't seen any
pictures of any Saudi aircraft bombing
uh Syria or Iraq I haven't seen their
Livery anywhere they're on the paper
they're on the Mast head but I don't
think they are a significant military
part I don't think they'd even claim to
be but Saudi Arabia has 700 war planes
700 we should know we sold them many you
probably sold them uh many of them the
mixure of tornadoes and yes why can't
they do this job why that's a good
question why can't they do that turkey
is a NATO member with a very powerful
Army Iran has a powerful Army the point
is that if they were really committed
they wouldn't need us um they got the
hardware they have got the hardware but
but Hardware is useless and let you know
how to use it and that's partly about
pilot training and it's partly about
well the Saudi Pilots are trained in the
UK well and it's partly about
intelligence yes they are I I don't know
what their capability is I'm no longer
in any position to assess that but I
don't think anyone would claim that they
would have the same expertise that the
Americans would have or probably even at
a lower level than the British I come
back to the point I made uh to Michael
why are we bothering I mean our military
contribution is insignificant we're
going to got six tornadoes coming out of
Cyprus uh they don't need us we're
making it more complicated by saying
we'll do it but we won't do Syria there
is some symbolism for the Americans but
the French are there already why do we
need to be there we're bothering for
both a principled and a pragmatic reason
the principled reason being I'm an
internationalist I believe that when
people call for your assistance in
fighting the barbarism that we're seeing
at the moment from isil you should come
to their assistance to help them
pragmatically I think there is some
evidence that those who have been
radicalized and in fact uh who have
carried out hideous acts in Iraq and
Syria were they to return to the UK or
were they to want to plot against the UK
would be a threat to our if if we're
bombing are they less likely to do so if
we bomb them uh these uh people uh were
encouraged to go and fight in Syria by
Western policy right at the beginning of
this conflict it was an insane policy as
I tried to point out at the time because
all these people would be all dressed up
with nowhere to go except back home with
all the skills terrorist skills that
they acquired in that conflict the
problem for both Michael and Jackie is
that we the public have heard all this
before these were the reasons we were
told we should invade and occupy Iraq in
the first place and it didn't work then
why should we believe that it will work
now terrorism flourished cascaded
everywhere in the world as a result of
the first uh uh Iraq war the second one
as that happened Dame Eliza Manningham
Buller warned us in advance of the war
that that would be the case she was the
head of MI5 was the head of MI5 and she
said the risk of terrorism here in
Britain will be greater if we invade we
are not to blame for violent islamism
911 happened uh before for example we
went into um Afghanistan uh I think to
try and sort of somhow suggest you know
I was glad to see your condemnation in
the film but what you now appear to be
trying to do is to be shifting respons
responsibility for uh barbarism that is
the responsibility of isil somehow onto
us this isn't actually about
us George leaves out any sense of um of
urgency I mean Isel has made tremendous
advances taking over much of Syria and
much of uh Iraq uh the Iraqi government
to say the least of it is alarmed about
that the other powers in the region are
to say the least of it alarmed about
that this isn't just about considering
whether a bit of bombing is going to
make the more likely to attack us was
going to make them more militant it is
also about trying to arrest what has
been until recently a deteriorating
military situation well let me pick up
on that because there's a report in
yesterday's New York Times uh a very
authoritative report that that pointed
out that after six weeks of American Air
Raids in Iraq not in Syria but in Iraq
isil or Isis or wherever you want to
call it hasn't given up a single bit of
ground they're still there indeed they
yesterday they took took over an Iraqi
army camp 30 m from Baghdad so what is
air power going to
do well air power obviously can kill a
lot of people and destroy a lot of
equipment and can destroy um command
centers it does need to be accompanied
by an operation on the ground and I
think George is absolutely right to say
the operation on the ground ought to be
one that's conducted by the local Powers
local one thing I'm sure of
theis are not going to commit not they
simply are not uh and they want us to do
it for them even though they are in part
responsible for this problem but I'm
Jackie in no doubt at all about your
responsibility in this and two million
of us on the Streets of London Told You
So at the time and for you now to try
and wash your hands of your share of the
responsibility I'm afraid that's a spot
that will not all the perfumes of Arabia
and all of your poetry George doesn't
prevent people from being murdered and
massacred in Iraq and Syria at the
moment I not washing my hands of what
happened in the past you killed a
million people in Iraq that is a
separate you killed a million people in
Iraq it's incredible that you have the
brass neck to be sitting here now urging
another Iraq war if I was still in
Parliament I would be there tomorrow
living up to my responsibility to answer
the call of the IR
government and people to help to support
them and the fact that you aren't is
something that you will have to live
with let me ask a final question to you
George if not bombing if not
intervention how do we deal with this
cancer give Iraq the weapons that it's
already paid for but haven't been
delivered strengthen the peshmerga
strengthen the governments of Iraq and
Syria and ask Saudi Arabia turkey and
Iran to fight this battle it's their
battle not ours okay George Gall thank
thanks for being with us now it's late
Alex Simon's dream of an independent
Scotland late but don't activate the
Babe station subscription just yet
because waiting on the wings back